Kestoda asked, “How is it that in spite of much
effort we are not getting the desired results ?”
Thakur
answered, “How is that ?
We have made practically no endeavour. Why not analyze the origin, programme
and maneuvers of leaders of so called movements ? They have not yet been able
to discover the eternal India.
They have no acquaintance with basic problems. They are inviting more dangerous
and deadly issues out of their mishandling and bungling of problems which are
more supposed than real.”
While
describing the characteristic features of Aryan India, Thakur said, “We had such a nice adjustment then
that the best of every Varna
(class) were always normally determined and they constantly loomed large in the
eyes of the people, being in the focus of public attention, and the best among
them used to be president. The premier, with his cabinet, was elected out of an
auto election of nature. There was never a dearth of right men in the right
places ; the next best man was always ready ; and the criterion of his
excellence was experience, ability and service. The more a man did for people,
the more demonstrated ability a man had to his credit and the greater he was
thought. Those who demonstrated their ability in small spheres were given
higher and better scope. Even now we should give chances to efficient
administrators of union boards to enter district boards and still higher
spheres of responsibility. We should keep intact the specialty of every Varna
; otherwise men of specific traits become wanting. A man cannot attain to Brahminhood (realization of God) if he
abandons the normal representatives of men. They might be called ‘Basisthas’.
There were not one or two Basisthas ;
there were many. Basistha means a perfect controller of passions and people.
“Our
society was so ordained that there was no dearth of Basisthas. Shambuk caused
disruption in Varnasram, which is the
regulator of progress. He was creating disorder in society by bewildering
people and diverting them from the right path. But the Gita says, “We should not create confusion among the
ignorant who are attached to the fruits
of work’. So such a severe punishment (beheading) was prescribed for
Shambuk. We listen to the arguments of one group alone, and so the fault of
Shambuk does not appear before us, but the scripture says that the main
function of the king is to maintain Varnasram. This is such a primary thing.”
Sri
Sri Thakur paused for while, and then began, “Attachment to superior beloved is the fundamental thing.
If one moves forward with attachment to a superior beloved, combined with
active service ; Dharma, Wealth, fulfillment of desires and liberation must
embrace him. How many wealthy men are there in the world like Sri Krishna, Lord
Buddha, Lord Christ, Mohammed, Sri Chaitanya, or Sri Ramakrishna ? This is the
only way to blessedness is this life and life hereafter. Leadership is a
mockery without this attachment to superior beloved. If there is no concrete
living Ideal before a man, beyond his complexes, then his own complexes do not
do not become revealed to him. If the leader is not led, he will dig his own
ditch of ruin, and will also lead others thereto. You know the fate of Daksha
(efficient) Prajapati. And so it is evident that efficient can also be the cause
of downfall if there is no controlling agent in the shape of Ideal. A man may
be extraordinary gifted, but if he has no Ideal he will create chaos. Take, for
example, the case of Hitler. If Mahadev (divinity) is sacrificed, if a mission
is launched divorced from good, then connected therewith meet destruction. Know
it for certain that Stalin has succeeded only because he has stood on Lenin.
There is a continuity of allegiance from Marx and Lenin down to Stalin. There
is a term ‘fallen’. The word does not mean fallen from the sky or ground. A man
who has no Ideal is fallen.”
Kestoda
then asked, “By Ideal
many men mean an idea alone. What is the real significance of ‘Ideal’ ?”
Sri
Sri Thakur : “If ‘Ideal’
doesn’t mean anything more then an idea, then everything turns into mere idea.
Ideal means an embodied Ideal. Without embodied Ideal there is no conflict. The
word ‘Thakur’ means a man who knocks. Suppose you have decided to go east. He
will say, ‘That will not do ; you have to go west’. In this way in our normal
life he creates conflict in us with our complexes. The complexes can be
recognized as complexes through our attachment for him, and thus they gradually
become adjusted, and it is thus that a man grows. There is no limit as to how
far a man can progress through attachment for Ideal. See, for example, the case
of Shivaji. Ordinarily, he has no better than a commoner. Yet he vanquished the
Moguls out of a maddening love for Ramdas. But Rana Pratap could not achieve
anything due to his egoistic ambition. His whole plan was upset. We must
determine as to how a life glows out, and from what particular glowing point.
We should impart proper training to children from their very infancy. The
father should see that the child actively serves the mother, and the mother
must see that the child serves the father. Suppose a boy gives a tomato to his
mother. The mother should take it and ask, “Won’t you give one to your father
?” Then the boy will very probably say, ‘You mean Papa-Papa. Yes ! I must give
him’, and will run to get one. The mother should talk to her boy about the
glorious traits of his father, and the father also should talk to him about his
mother. The parents should narrate before the children the glories of their
forefathers in such a way that they are puffed up and exalted with a sublime
admiration for them. And for the sake of example they should acquaint them with
the life and achievements of national heroes in a lucid and lively fashion.
This will give rise to so many Humans who will be able to hold the sun in their
armpits. But we move in such a way that the seed of disobedience and disintegration
is sown among them. Parents themselves do not have active adherence to
superior. What can be expected under the circumstances ? It is not seldom that
they ask their children to bow down before Thakur ; whereas they themselves do
not do so. Many inconsistencies like that are deeply rooted in them. If the parents
behave themselves well, the special characteristics of children normally
unfurl. Character-building becomes solid. Otherwise, the libidoic urge becomes
upset, and as a result they become so many thieves and robbers.
“Our
society then had mastery over another branch of knowledge too. It knew how to
make marriage fruitful. Marriage is to be reformed in that way. If the best and
ablest among males have two or three wives, there will be plenty of powerful
men in the society and the birth of inferiors will be minimized. Also, there
will be more men to lead them. So it is said that Anulom, or hypergamy,
(union of female with male of superior heredity) promotes life and growth. This
is consistent with science too. We see the fruitful application of this principle
in the animal and plant world. We consult the genealogy and pedigree of cows,
horses or dogs. We try to improve their species in all possible ways, but we do
not care to think as to how better individuals will be born. Again, the tribal
problem you were speaking about can be easily solved by just absorbing them in
the society through the Anulom system of marriage. You know
of Ghatotkach and Babrubahan ; that this system of
marriage was once in vogue can be inferred from that. Have you looked around
the whole country ? Say, how many men are there who may be called men in the
true sense of the term ? Where are men of the ‘helmsman’ type ? One
Rabindranath has disappeared, but do you find another genius of similar type in
that field ? Or is there anybody who can approach him in excellence ? ‘An
excellent wife can be had even from a bad family.’ The support of Anulom is to
be found everywhere. The tree is of the seed, not of the soil. The soil is to
be prepared according to the seed ; this much. A mango tree cannot be had from
the seed of a jackfruit. So we must properly utilize the excellent seeds. In
Anulom marriage the issue becomes spirited and ardent, as were Vyas, Basistha,
Bidur, Narad. But too much difference is bad. Anyway, newer blood is always
necessary. Otherwise, the children gradually become dwarf, dull and weak in
body and mind.”
Chakrapanida
asked, “Is there any
connection between Physiology and Psychology ?”
Thakur
: “Yes ! Certainly there
is co-ordination. Suppose you severely beat a boy while teaching him. After two
days you will find that he will normally feel sleepy in your class. Again,
there are cases where men have turned out to be saints in the course of playing
the role of saints. Many become angry in the course of feigning anger.”
After
this, Shri Choudhury said, “We
have brought him (pointing to Shri Bordoloi) here to show the place.”
Thakur
: “Yes, I am feeling very
happy. If it were an occasion in my previous days, I would have rolled about in
the dust, taking him in my arms.”
Shri
Choudhury : “If he is in
the know of everything here, he may be very helpful.”
Thakur
: “Yes, out help means
mutual help.”
Then
Shri Bordoloi told Sri Sri Thakur as to what arrangements would be made for
economic, cultural and practical training in the new University of Assam.
With regard to cultural side, he said, “Of course, the fundamental trend of culture can be imparted and
infused by Mahtamaji or people like you.”
Thakur
: “Our workers will also
establish a College here ; we want your help. It is not right to say it at this
premature stage, but I keenly wish that a University would evolve here in the
course of time. I have thought that it should bear the name “Shandilya University”.
Of course, if you live long, and that in a progressive and Ideal-centric
manner, then verily I say everything will materialize.”
Shri
Bordoloi : “We have not
received proper education in schools and colleges.”
Thakur
: “You were not educated
then ; you have been educated in the practical field. You must so arrange things
that students may obtain that training, which you received in the practical
field, from the very beginning of their careers.”
There
followed some talk about the Government Agricultural Department of Assam. Sri
Sri Thakur said, “Secure
25,000 men, owing 1000 bighas of land, who will be ready to dedicate 2½ kathas
per bigha for social service. And you must implement the irrigation plan given
by Wilcocks and Bentley—whether I live or die. This will improve climate,
production and all that. It is to be done not in Bengal
alone but in all the provinces, and the sooner you can do it the better. If you
can give shape to it within my life-time, the whole country will be flooded
with achievements and acquisitions.”
After
this, Sri Bordoloi and Shri Choudhury took leave with faces beaming and spirits
soaring. When they had gone, Thakur said, “I have been able to talk quite a lot because of their receptive
mood.” Then he asked us with childlike simplicity, “Have I said anything
inconsistent ? Will they be angry ?”
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